The R. Zell – Tim Spangler Debate.

Here are the questions that Tim Spangler, a lucker found on many Fr. John Hollowells youtube.com video comment threads has challenged me on.

Tim Spangler challenges me to to show him the Catholicism in the following verses.

I will number these so Tim can follow along.

Here is Tim Spanglers Challenge:

tim spangler4 hours ago  (Oct 11, 2016)
How about YOU Zell? Care to go down the list with me to see if this is referring to CATHOLICISM?

tim spangler4 hours ago (Oct 11, 2016)
1.  It will be founded by GOD: Psalms 127:1, Matthew 16:18

It was founded by GOD.

2.  It will be highly visible: Isaiah 2:2, Matthew 5:14

It is highly visible.

3.  It will have the authority: Matthew 18:15-18, John 20:21-22

It has the authority given to it by Jesus Christ.

4.  It will have a Father Figure: Isaiah 22:20-25

5.  It has a Father Figure, as GOD always had for His people.

6.  It will be a Theocracy and not a Democracy: Eph 5:23-24

It is a Theocracy. It is governed from the top down.

7.  The blueprint for it is described in the book of Acts.

It is blueprinted in the book of Acts.

8.  It will have priests, deacons, Bishops: Acts 6:1-6,14:22,20:28

It always has had priests, deacons, and Bishops.

9.  It will have Apostolic Succession: Psalm 109:8, Acts 1:20-26

It has Apostolic Succession.

10.  It will offer sacrifice every day in every place: Malachi 1:11

It does offer sacrifice every day in every place.

11.  It will be guided by the Holy Spirit: John 14:16-17, 16:12-13

12.  It is guided by the Holy Spirit: Acts 15:28, Rev 2:7

13.  Truths of GOD to be revealed to it over time: John 16:12-13

14.  Truths of GOD have been revealed to it over time: Eph 3:10

15.  It will be the Pillar and Foundation of Truth: 1Timothy 3:15

It is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

16.  It will be the guardian of truth: 2Timothy 1:13-14

It has been the guardian of truth for almost 2000 years.

17.  It will uphold Apostolic Tradition: 2Thessalonians 2:15

It upholds Apostolic Tradition.

18.  It will have Church councils: Proverbs 11:14, Acts 15:1-29

It holds periodic Church councils: Acts 15:1-29

19.  It will be attacked from the inside: John 6:70

It has been attacked from the inside.

20.  It will be attacked from the outside: Matthew 5:10-12, 10:22

It has been attacked from the outside.

21.  All who fight against it shall be confounded: Isaiah 41:11

37,000+ Protestant sects is proof that they are confounded.

22.  It will be found in every century: Ephesians 3:21

23.  It is found in every century from the day Christ founded it.

24.  It will last forever: Isa 41:10-11, 54:17, 59:21, Matt 28:20

Tim should understand that the word Catholic isn’t contained in Scripture.  The first use of the word Catholic occurs around the year 107 A.D..  The very word Christian isn’t used until at least 15 to 20 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven.  The Church and it’s followers are referred to as “THE WAY.”

So if Tim Spangler pulls a Tim Spangler on me and claims the word CATHOLIC isn’t in the BIBLE, well, we know that this will become a absurdity.

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28 thoughts on “The R. Zell – Tim Spangler Debate.

  1. QUESTION 1: It will be founded by GOD: Psalms 127:1, Matthew 16:18
    It was founded by GOD.

    Psalm 127.1 – A Song of Ascents, of Solomon. Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

    Matthew 16:18 – And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

    ANSWER: Nothing incompatible in Psalm 127.1 and Matthew 16:18.

    The massage of Psalm 127 is that all human effort directed toward such wise pursuits must be founded on a firm trust in God’s grace and assistance. In Matthew 16:18, Christ tells St. Peter that He will build his Church upon the person he just renamed Rock. Rock in Aramaic is Kephas (or Cephas). In the language Jesus speaks the sentence is read as: And I tell you that you are Kepha, and on this Kepha I will build My Church and the gates of Hades (Hell) will not prevail against it.

    Is Christ the Head of the Church? Absolutely. And a visible Church cannot lack a visible head and this is why Christ, who understands human nature, gives the Keys of the Kingdom to St. Peter, to be the visible head as Christ’s representative on earth, until He returns.

    When Jesus Christ founded the visible Church, He established a supernatural unity. This is the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and giving the Keys of the Kingdom to St. Peter. this supernatural unity is located in this Church. We call this the Mystical Body of Christ and men and women are truly and divinely united to each other through being incorporated into this supernatural unity.

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  2. QUESTION 2: 2. It will be highly visible: Isaiah 2:2, Matthew 5:14

    It is highly visible.

    Isaiah 2:2 – Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it.

    Matthew 5:14 – You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.

    ANSWER: Tim, Both of these verses are interesting. If you don’t understand that Jesus has climbed onto the mountain, as Moses ascended the Mountain to receive the Law, Jesus doesn’t ascend the mountain to receive a new Law, but to fulfill the law and teach about the New Law. The Law of Love. This is the meaning of the Beatitudes, Tim.

    Tim, who can climb God’s Holy Mountain?

    What is Jesus saying to his audience? They are first of all 2nd Temple Jews. They have failed to be the Light of the World, to bring God to the world. They wanted to keep God for themselves. In Matthew 5:14-15 Jesus tells the Jews that Israel isn’t chosen in order to be God’s special people while the rest of the world remains in utter darkness. Israel is chosen to be the light of the world, the salt of the earth. Israel is chosen so that, through Israel, God can bless all people. And now Jesus is calling Israel to be the light of the world at last. Aren’t we to let our light so shine before men that they see our good works and give glory to God?

    The Catholic Church calls us to be the Light. This is the reason Jesus Christ came into the work to rescue us from this utter darkness. We do this through the Mystical Body of Christ. And how is one to be the light? By being in Christ Jesus and following Christ you cannot help but reflect His light like a Holy flame of love. We will not walk in darkness as Christ is our light.

    Yes Tim, we can again talk about the Wheat and the Tares.

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  3. I finally figured Tim out. He is a lurker on all or most of Fr. Hollowell’s videos.

    He isn’t man enough to post his replies on here because he will be held accountable for his poor performance and unworthiness of Christ Jesus.

    Please feel free to jump in anytime.

    Blessings Brother,

    R. Zell

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    • R.zell i honestly think that dude is having issues with his Calvinist theology i see him on almost every Catholic youtube video, but when i go to uncharted Catholic waters aka kjv cultist sacrement hating vampires “baptist” he is never there to defend his cults practices.

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      • The Timster thinks Catholics are easy pray. I like Tim, we’ve spoken on a one to one level as Brothers in Christ, but he has been plummeted a few times with biblical answers by hardcore, ready to defend Christ and His Mystical Body, the Catholic Church.

        I’m more than willing to dialogue on what separates us. In fact, Sola Fida is not that big a divide, according to our top Catholic Theologians. Sola Scripture is absolutely wrong according to the very scripture they claim Sola Scripture is derived from.

        Remember though, that if a Protestant does come to realize that the Church that Christ Jesus established on earth is the Catholic Church and they do not enter her, they may have forfeited their salvation and because the person who caused him or her to come to that realization, they to will be held accountable for the welfare of their brother or sister.

        Think about this: Because you are in the Catholic Church, you have a much great obligation to bring the separated brethren back into the church. As Christ Jesus said, when much is given, much will be expected. We must do everything with gentleness and patience when confronting protestants. I’m talking about mainstream, not cult, not sect type of Protestants, i.e. Reformed, Lutheran, Methodist and several others. The rest of them are proven heretics and will be judged according to the life they have lived.

        Peace of Christ to you and yours,

        R. Zell

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        • Ohh i fully agree with you not all protesters are created equal there are some confessional Lutherans, and high church Anglicans that are more Catholic than our more liberal brethren. Anyway i know some times i come off as overzealous, but I’m thats because i go for those super reformed groups that only listen by the holier than thou attitude i truly wish to convert them not tell them they are anathema.

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    • I received a PUBLIC CHALLENGE today from Tim Spangler. He challenged me to go over EPHESIANS with him. He claims that Ephesians does not support Catholicism. I remembered reading this DEBATE….The R ZELL TIM SPANGLER DEBATE. I don’t think that he has ANSWERED you on this PUBLIC DEBATE? Well, I answered back and said “So you are issuing me a PUBLIC CHALLENGE? I asked whether it was like the CHALLENGE that he made to YOU, to R. Zell. I noticed that you used EPHESIANS in several of your responses. I noticed how you answered Tim with MAL. 1:11. I gave him the verse MAL. 1:11 a few years ago. He totally rejected it. He told me that if I could find him any verse that mentions UNBLOODY SACRIFICES , in the New Testament, as being necessary, he would JOIN the Catholic Church. He is just ALL TALK. At the time, I couldn’t find any in the New Testament that mentioned Unbloody sacrifices as necessary, but I provided him with MAL 1:11. He IGNORED it, at first. Later, I brought it up again. I mentioned that in MAL. 1:10 Malachi said how Jesus would REJECT the sacrifices of the Jews. Verse 11, I told him, had to be Unbloody. Tim disagreed. He just didn’t want to see it. I said that since Verse 10 tells us that Reject the sacrifices of the Jews, verse 11 had to be unbloody. Jesus wouldn’t REJECT the bloody sacrifices of the Jews, then come up with another BLOODY sacrifice. He didn’t agree. Just curious, did Tim S. ever RESPOND to this PUBLIC debate? It doesn’t look like he did. Anyway, today, 8/13 I said that I don’t TRUST his CHALLENGES, since he issued you a CHALLENGE, then didn’t even bother to answer to your comments. Keep up the good work!! Tim just doesn’t want to SEE. He said that if I found a verse in the New Testament that said that Unbloody Sacrifices are necessary, he would JOIN the Catholic Church!! I mentioned MALACHI 1:11, then later, I did provide a verse from the New Testament. He is just a game player. He issues CHALLENGES, then ignores the responses. He is just ALL TALK.

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        • Thanks. After I reminded him of his CHALLENGE to you…he said that he would go over Ephesians verse by verse with me. Before that message, I told him that I didn’t think much of his CHALLENGES. He may have issued another CHALLENGE because of MY message, reminding him of his prior Challenge to you. IF you do respond to his recent CHALLENGE, make it PUBLIC again. There are times that he seems intelligent, yet, he is always trying to pick apart every word others use. Once I told someone that The LORD’S PRAYER is RECITED at every mass. He picked that apart, wondering where the word RECITE is in the Bible….Nuts! Another time I told someone that I LEARNED something in Catholic School. He said ” You didn’t LEARN it. You were TAUGHT it.” Yes, I think NUTS pretty much describes him. Thanks again

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    • R Zell, I see now, from this response, that he has NOT responded to this PUBLIC DEBATE! As Ii said, today, 8/13, he Challenged me to a PUBLIC DEBATE!! As I mentioned, I told I told him what I thought of his CHALLENGES. I don’t trust them.

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  4. Apostolic Succession roots can be shown in the OT GOD commanded “succession” of Moses to Joshua (Numbers 27:18-23) and in the NT also in Acts 6:6 and 2 Timothy 1:6. GOD bless and keep up the great work.

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  5. QUESTION #3 – 3. It will have the authority: Matthew 18:15-18, John 20:21-22

    It has the authority given to it by Jesus Christ.

    Yes Tim Spangler, Jesus does give His authority to the Apostles.

    The Catholic Church is given the Authority of Jesus Christ on the Church He Himself established on the foundation of the faith of His Apostles with Himself as the cornerstone. This teaching is based upon Matthew 16:16-19, Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 22:31 and John 21:15-17.

    The promises made to the Apostle Peter will always apply to the Catholic Church. Our justification for this presupposition is that the Church has not been decapitated. Nor will it be as Christ has promised that the gates of Hell would not stand against it.

    The Catholic claim to authority is not BASED ON QUESTIONABLE INTERPRETATIONS OF THOSE SCRIPTURES ABOVE. The Catholic claim is not based on scripture at all. It can be seen in Matthew 16:16-19, Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 22:31 and John 21:15-17, but it is not based on those verses as if the authority of the Apostles or St. Peter and his successors come from their interpretation of Scripture. The Authority of the Apostles and the Church comes from Jesus Himself. Scripture only confirms it.

    That Apostolic Authority has been their right from the beginning and is seen in Acts 15.

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  6. QUESTION 4 & 5:

    Question #4: 4. It will have a Father Figure: Isaiah 22:20-25

    Isaiah 22 is NOT a prophecy about the Papacy; it is merely a foreshadowing of the institution. It shows the importance of the keys in the Davidic kingdom and the clear parallels between the king and his prime minister.

    As a Type of the Papacy, Isaiah shows yet another indication that the failings of the OT Covenant are perfected in Christ’s New Covenant.

    Just as Adam, who was a type of Christ, failed; Just as the crossing of the Red Sea was a type of Baptism, and yet the Israelites still broke the Covenant, we see the Prime Minister in Judah failing to uphold his role in the Kingdom.

    But in the NT, Christ never failed, Baptism saves us, and the Papacy will be the visible head of a Church of whom against “the Gates of Hell will not prevail”. (from my notes.)

    Yes Tim, This is not the Papacy, but it is a type as in typology.

    QUESTION #5: It has a Father Figure, as GOD always had for His people.

    I’m glad you see the familial relationship between God and His Chosen people, the Jewish Nation. We, as Christians are converts and heirs through baptism as St. Paul says in Romans 8:16-17:

    …16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ — if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

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  7. QUESTION 6: It will be a Theocracy and not a Democracy: Eph 5:23-24

    It is a Theocracy. It is governed from the top down.

    Well Tim, here is a definition of Theocracy:

    A Thearchy or theocracy is government by the immediate direction of God though his ministers and representatives.

    There are just too many places in scripture that describe a hierarchy. Acts 6:6 for example:

    These they set before the Apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands upon them. This is the same thing the Catholic Church does to confer Apostolic Authority upon a Bishop of the Church. Why do they do this? Because these are “being sent.” These are those who “He who wears you hears me and the one who sent me.”

    Of Course Jesus Christ is the Head of His mystical body, the Church. Do I have to show you the connection between Christ and His Church, which is His Body.

    Acts 15, Tim, do the Apostles and Elders vote on whether the gentile converts will be required to be circumcised or not? No, the theocracy does Tim. God, the Father Son and Holy Spirit, in conjunction with the Apostles and elders make the ruling, guided by the Holy Spirit. See the entire chapter of Acts 15.

    Matthew 18:17 – If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Protestant Gentile and a tax collector.

    Well Tim, Jesus had just said in Matthew 16 that He would build His Church, a singular thing. Now here , in Matthew 18:17, through what He says about Church discipline, He shows us that the Church has a visible Hierarchy, something to which we can tell things, and to which we can listen.

    So Tim, since communication is a visible thing, only a visible hierarchy can excommunicate those in sin.

    Theocracy is evident in our Church Tim. As 1 Tim 3:1 says: The saying is sure: If anyone aspires to the office of Bishop, he desires a noble task. The early Church had a specific hierarchy right from its beginning.

    And what about St. Paul referring to his position as occupying an “office?” It is implicit that it could have other occupants.

    There is so much more to be said out this question Tim. It would fill a book.

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  8. QUESTION #7 The blueprint for it is described in the book of Acts.

    It is blueprinted in the book of Acts.

    Yes Tim, the blueprint is described in Acts of the Apostles. As noted in question #6, 1 Tim 3;1, Acts 6:6, Matthew 18:17, Acts 15 it is most highly outlined as to how the Church is to be administered to.

    Acts 15, first Council of Jerusalem we see the young Church deal with, what is probably the first questions concerning theology. Because Jesus did not address to the Apostles and disciples what they were to do with gentile converts, the Church,given the apostolic authority to make decisions on behalf of Christ Jesus, until He returns, makes that decision and they send their ruling to the known Christian on this BINDING resolution.

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  9. QUESTION # 8. It will have priests, deacons, Bishops: Acts 6:1-6,14:22,20:28

    It always has had priests, deacons, and Bishops.

    Agreed Tim. Elders as well. We just have different names for them today.

    The Overseers of the Church Tim, are the Bishops.

    Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

    And Yes Tim, we are all called to be overseers, but we are also members of a flock that has Shepherds.

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  10. QUESTION #9. It will have Apostolic Succession: Psalm 109:8, Acts 1:20-26

    It has Apostolic Succession.

    Thank you Tim for pointing out that there is such a thing as Apostolic Succession. We can see that once a person has passed away, the

    St. Paul states this also in 1 Corinthians 3:10 –

    According to the grace ofGod given to me, like a skiled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it.

    We see that the Apostles laid down the foundation so the House of God will continue to grow.

    St Peter also in 2 Peter 1:15 –

    And I will see to it that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things.

    Peter did as Christ did and appointed a shepherd to lead the flock in the advent of his departure. We see that St. Peter did do this and we have an unbroken line of succession from St. Peter to the Present day Bishop of Rome.

    10. It will offer sacrifice every day in every place: Malachi 1:11

    It does offer sacrifice every day in every place.

    There is plenty of controversy involving this verse. and I refer you to this website: https://blog.adorationservants.org/2013/02/21/malachi-111-is-the-catholic-mass/.

    My personal opinion is that it does refer to the Catholic Mass.

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  11. Question: 11. It will be guided by the Holy Spirit: John 14:16-17, 16:12-13

    Question: 12. It is guided by the Holy Spirit: Acts 15:28, Rev 2:7

    Here Tim is my other Tim Spangler article: https://solasymbolic.wordpress.com/2016/04/17/the-catholic-church-is-guided-by-the-holy-spirit/

    Question 11 – If the Catholic Church was not guided by the Holy Spirit, then why aren’t we Gnostics, Sabellians, Montanists, Nestorians, or even Protestant denominations, cults and sects which are diametrically opposed to sacred scripture, i.e. Mormanism, Iglesia ni Christo, Jehovah Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, etc?

    Ever of your verses verifies that the Holy Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. These verses all prove that Tim Spangler was protected by the Holy Catholic Church from falling into those heresies I discussed in my Tim Spangler article. Why I have not fallen into heresy is because I follow the Shepherd of the Catholic Church that Jesus Christ appointed to lead His flock.

    Let’s look at John 16:12

    “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

    John 16:12 demonstrates that the Church’s infallible doctrine develops over time. This verse presupposes that there were things not yet understood or in need of development, such as the Trinity, the divine humanity of Jesus, and other such vital truths which needed to be clarified for us. All public revelation was completed with the death of the last Apostles, but the doctrines of God’s revelation develops as our minds and hearts are able to welcome and understand it. God teaches His children only as much as they can bear, for their own good. He founded a Church (as opposed to a Jesus Movement), guaranteed it against the powers of evil, gave it His authority; He never abandoned His Church.

    Questions 12 – Thanks Tim for pointing out Revelation 2:7, but you really need to look at the entire Revelation 2:2-17 where it is clearly stipulated that Jesus Hates Heresy and those Churches that have abandoned following the Church established on the faith of the Apostles with Christ as the Cornerstone. What is seen here that that St. John, the author of Revelation, is the Nicolaitans are not following the Apostolic Authority of this Apostle. That is the purpose of Christs condemnation of the Nicolaitans.

    And Tim, Acts 15:28 is talking about the Universal Church being guided by the Holy Spirit. Not a denomination that is in outright schism with the Church Christ Jesus Established. What do the Apostles and Elders do? They draft a letter and send out capable men to all the Churches to bring the ruling to the particular churches to follow.

    THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS PRE-DENOMINATIONAL.

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  12. QUESTION 13 & 14:

    13. Truths of GOD to be revealed to it over time: John 16:12-13

    14. Truths of GOD have been revealed to it over time: Eph 3:10

    Tim, both of these verses prove that the revelation given to the Church, we call the Deposit of Faith, is revealed over time. It is the purpose of the Church, not churches which have ZERO Apostolic Authority, to interpret what develops over time, such as the Trinity, which nowhere in scripture is mentioned, but came about when men asked questions which required an answer to further increase our knowledge of God.

    Both verses are specifically embraced by the True Catholic Church.

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  13. QUESETIONS 15 & 16:

    15. It will be the Pillar and Foundation of Truth: 1Timothy 3:15

    It is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

    16. It will be the guardian of truth: 2Timothy 1:13-14

    It has been the guardian of truth for almost 2000 years.

    Here Tim is something that you really need to look at closely. St. Paul is talking about the Church founded by Christ Jesus on the Day of Pentecost, 33 A.D.. He is not talking about any other church, denomination, cult or sect. As I pointed out to you previously, Any church founded after the Apostolic age is not the true church. Any particular church or members of that church,that has separated itself from the True Catholic Church (Pentecost 33 A.D.) is like a branch that has been broken off of the vine. It can in know way establish it’s Apostolicity. It does not exist and is something not of Christ.

    As for question 16, The Catholic Church, again has protected it’s flock from heresy, as history bears witness to it. Again, Tim Spangler isn’t a Nestorian, an Arian, etc. etc..

    It Question is: Does Tim Spangler belong to the Church that Jesus Christ established on the faith of His Apostles with Himself as the cornerstone? Or does Tim Spangler identifiy himself with those that have walked away from Christs mystical body and therefore from Christ Himself? In other words, is Tim Spangler Catholic or Orthodox? I know Tim isn’t a Gnostic, or Arian and why is that?

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  14. QUESTIONS 17 & 18

    17. It will uphold Apostolic Tradition: 2Thessalonians 2:15

    It upholds Apostolic Tradition.

    18. It will have Church councils: Proverbs 11:14, Acts 15:1-29

    It holds periodic Church councils: Acts 15:1-29

    Question 17: Well Tim, Apostolic Tradition is upheld by the Catholic and Orthodox Church. Let me give you an example of Apostolic Tradition which you will appreciate. If you read the correspondence of St. Athanasius about the Nicene council, you will find that one of his principle charges against the Arian Heretics, was that they wanted to interpret Scripture without the lense of Sacred Tradition. We both are aware that the Trinity is not stated explicitly in sacred Scripture, yet St. Athanasius used the Apostolic Tradition as one of the means in which to formulate the Nicene Creed and the belief in the Trinity.

    Question 18: The first Council of the Church was what is known as the Council of Jerusalem. As stated above, the Holy Spirit does indeed guide the Church that Christ Jesus established on the faith of the Apostles with Himself as the cornerstone. After 70 A.D., when the Church in Jerusalem was no longer the primary universal Church in which all particular churches were subject to, we see this Church moves to Rome, where we have the blood of the martyrs as witnesses to it. It took almost 300 years for the Catholic Church to have another ecumenical council that was to determine for all particular churches that dogma of the Blessed and Holy Trinity.

    This is why R. Zell and Tim Spangler are not Arian Heretics because we believe in the Trinity.

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  15. QUESTIONS 19 & 20

    Question: 19. It will be attacked from the inside: John 6:70

    It has been attacked from the inside.

    Well Tim, as I show in my article “The Last Supper and the 2 Types of Bread* the very first Protestants are found at the Bread of Life Discourse. We find them in John 6:66 and they are the ones who *NO LONGER WALKED WITH CHRIST.* The context of the Bread of Life Discourse was to show that the Holy Eucharist will be believed by some and not by others. Judas certainly did not believe in the Divinity of Christ Jesus and yet he was part of Christ’s inner circle of disciples.

    Tim, who does Jesus give ordinary, unblessed, unconsecrated bread to? He gives it to Judas and Satan enters him. Both Judas and Satan abide one in the other; they become one in mind and body. Who are those today that deny the Body of Christ in the Holy Eucharist?

    In fact Tim, who is the very first person in history to say Yes, Amen, Fiat, to the Body of Christ? It is Mary, the Mother of God. Who is the first person to say Yes to the Body of Christ and then reject it? Judas, see Luke 1 and Luke 22:21.

    20. It will be attacked from the outside: Matthew 5:10-12, 10:22

    It has been attacked from the outside.

    Here Tim you confuse me a bit. We, those who are in the Church that Christ Jesus established on the faith of the Apostles with Christ as our cornerstone are persecuted Tim everyday. Whether we are martyred in the Middle East or persecuted here in America by those who believe they are doing the work of Christ without being a member of the Body of Christ, we the Catholic Church have taken the brunt of Protestant persecution.

    You’ve heard me say this before: *Satan has been trying to destroy the Catholic Church since Pentecost 33 A.D.. Protestants have been trying to destroy the Catholic Church for the past 500 years. Muslims have been trying to destroy the Catholic Church for 1,300 years. And even united, the Catholic Church still stands.*

    Concerning Matthew 10:22 –

    22 You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

    I am a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, His Church, The Catholic Church “who men will hate because of ME” and yet we have endured to the end and we will be saved.

    You must have missed the High Priestly Prayer of John 17. Unity Tim. Those who do not foster unity, are doing the very work of Satan.

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  16. Questions: 21 & 22 for you timster.

    21. All who fight against it shall be confounded: Isaiah 41:11

    37,000+ Protestant sects is proof that they are confounded.

    Well Tim, your “37,000+ Protestant sects (cults and denominations) are proof that those who leave the True Faith entrusted by Christ to His Apostles, will lead to chaos. That this is exactly what has happened in the separated world of Protestantism. Every single branch that has cut itself off from the other Protestant branch that it was grafted onto, to start another denomination, cult to sect, do so by schism with it’s founding Protestant denomination.

    You have proved again what is in question, that without a Shepherd the sheep are lost and some have fallen into a pit. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 – For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. Example is to deny the Holy Trinity.

    Also Tim Spangler, its more like 45,000 different Protestant denominations. This is in direct opposition to the 1 Church (not churches) that Christ Jesus established on the foundation of the faith of His Apostles with himself as the cornerstone. Jesus prayed for unity. And He actually has unity because those that have left the Catholic Church, in effect has left intact the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

    There is no such thing as picking a church. We do not leave the Catholic Church to go church shopping because one set of doctrines doesn’t agree with our set of doctrines. NO TIM, we must follow the Shepherd of the flock least we fall into a pit.

    22. It will be found in every century: Ephesians 3:21

    Me: True and is a testament to the very words of Christ Jesus.

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  17. QUESTIONS:

    23. It is found in every century from the day Christ founded it.

    Hi Tim. Agreed. We know exactly the very day that the one and only Church that Christ Jesus founded was. That Day is the Day of Pentecost 33 A.D.. On that day, Pentecost 33 A.D., there were about 120 people in the Upper Room. There were 12 Apostles, Mary, the Mother of God, (Jesus, the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity) and the disciples.

    Any Church founded after that day is not the Church that Jesus Christ founded. This included Protestant churches. We aren’t talking about physical buildings Tim. We are talking about the Universal Church, the one and only Church Christ founded. You see the word Church used in Acts and in the Epistles, such as the church in Ephesus, the church in Corinth, the church in Crete, etc., but those are particular churches that the Church founded by Christ on the foundation of the faith of the Apostles with Himself as the cornerstone were subject to the rulings and teachings of this universal church headed by the Apostles and not by the Reformers such as Luther, Zwingli, Calvin or those that came after to found their own churches.

    24. It will last forever: Isa 41:10-11, 54:17, 59:21, Matt 28:20

    It will last until the Second Coming and then a New Heaven and a New Earth will be established here on earth.

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